An Interview with Sensei Tony Christian , part 3.

'FOLLOWING THE TRAIL' – A CONVERSATION WITH SENSEI TONY CHRISTIAN.

This is the second part of a long interview I did with Sensei Christian back in 2015, that was published in the UK martial arts magazine 'Martial Arts Illustrated'. 
This section covers the mid-1970's and his search for greater depth and understanding of the martial arts. 

AM = “So, we get to the mid-1970's and the appearance of Okinawan version Goju Ryu, as opposed to the Japanese version (Goju Kai), you had been working with. How did the training differ ?”

TC = “Well, the real truth of it was , I think there was no depth in the Japanese stuff. Gary didn't understand the Kata and the Bunkai's , that's the trurth. He could do Seiunchin Kata, but couldn't do Sepai or Sesan. He knew Bunkai for some of the stuff, but not others. No real depth of knowledge. And that's what I wanted. (At this time Tony Christian was a 2^nd Dan and Gary Spiers was a 3^rd or 4^th Dan)”

“So, I was off on the trail of this depth, I was off to Japan. Thinking about it, Steve Cattle was a wonderful man. He'd been out there and he said. “ You're crazy, you're going to loose your club – which was making a lot of money at that time. You'll go out there for a year and all your students will go. When you're there, they'll treat you like rubbish and when you come back, you'll have no Dojo. “ But I was so keen, I had the money and the plans. Then Steve rings me . “I've got the answer to your problem.” He'd just met James Rousseau (23). He's linked to Chinen and Higaonna and you want to learn all the Kata and that. They know it all.” And that was my trail. My trail wasn't to learn to fight, because I could well do that. You know Spiers, if you were in a fight in a pub and I'm deadly serious, there was none better.”

“If you really wanted to know how to fight, I wouldn't have picked Chinen, I'd have picked Gary every time. What it was, was that Chinen could do Sesan and all those things. And that's what I wanted, to learn the whole system, more depth. Now, I'm not into Japanese history, I've said all a long, I don't want to be a 16^th century samurai ; unlike some, or dream dream of Chojun Miyagi and Okinawa. I'm my own man, I'm more interested in the history of Great Britain, the history of where I come from. I view the martial arts, now, as mine. It's mine , it's yours to do what ever you want with, it's yours to do your own thing with. It takes time, but it becomes yours. “

“That's were the Kickboxing comes from, they did their own thing, Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, Benny Urquidez (24) etc . And that's what Steve Taberner was doing with Kickboxing – his own thing. That was the trail they wanted to take. I enjoyed all that, because it's all martial arts , it doesn't have to be just one way. I think the danger of the martial arts, is like religion, were things are closed, blinkered and cloistered , they don't see anything outside themselves. Like I say, open and closed views of training.(make a note for this) They don't see the wrestling or don't see the striking. Some of the oriental styles can't see anything but themselves. They don't see that , like Wigan was the base of 'Catch - As – Catch – Can' (wrestling), some of the greatest wrestlers in the world in their time : which I see and they don't. And they don't see the boxing, which I did, because I'd been there with my Dad, watching them all. I still think, in close quarter fighting, striking, you'll never beat a good boxer. I didn't like the idea of people saying to me. 'Oh you can't do this.....' Chinen used to watch me doing the boxing stuff and say you shouldn't use that. It's ridicules. Like Bruce Lee said, if it's good , use it. If it's not good, discard it.”

“Was Bruce Lee an influence ? Because at that time (late 1970's and early 1980's)) we were all cracking off doing things in our own way. Gary Spiers was doing his own thing. This idea that we all lined up and did the same thing. We were Scousers, we always do our own thing. Steve Cattle split from Enoda, Kanazawa split form the JKA. Higaonna from the Jundokan. Steve Morris, they all went off on their own searches. The martial arts is always a big search.”